/lit/ - Literature

I remember reading an article - I can't find it now - that said the authority of the classical literary canon was a byproduct of the authority of Christianity. People who found no compelling reason to believe in Christian dogma also found no compelling reason to read a certain list of great books representing the best that had been thought and said.

I think there is truth in this. The early Christian thinkers - Augustine. Boethius, etc. - had a deep love of the Greco-Roman classics and this carried over into the Middle Ages and Renaissance. The conservative Christian writer Rod Dreher has his children enrolled in a "classical Christian" school, whose curriculum is based on Christian teaching and the Great Books. The Western canon is not exclusively Christian, but you could say it is dialogue with Christianity.

Mass literacy itself is a byproduct of Protestant Christianity. The original reason for wanting everyone to be able to read was so that everyone could read the Bible for themselves. Then literacy - in the sense of knowledge of the three Rs - became necessary for the functioning of an industrial society. But maybe a literate working class is no longer thought to be needed.

I remember William Gibson, lecturing in Rochester in the 1980's, saying in his languid Virginia drawl that in the future, literacy would become a specialty, like coding - not a skill that everybody had or needed to have.

>>16649

I agree with some of what you say here. Rubenstein's _Aristotle's_Children_ describes a similar relationship between the Church and the Greek and Roman classics. My relatively benign current view of religion went the other way: from the classics to a guarded sympathy with the Church.

Right now I'm reading Shlomo Sands' _Invention_of_the_Jewish_People_, and even the first few pages of front matter in Sands are mind-blowing. His compelling thesis is that there has NOT been an unbroken Jewish culture, let alone a constant Jewish biological "race" with common DNA running from the days of the Biblical account of Abraham and Moses and David and all the rest (most of which never happened anyway) right up to the inhabitants of today's Tel Aviv. If anything, some Arab Israeli dude walking around today in Hebron is probably closer, genetically, to King David than is Benjamin Netanyahu. For centuries, Judaism, before it got crushed by Christianity and Islam, was a proselytizing religion, and the once populous Jewish world of Eastern Europe was made up of descendants of the broken-up kingdom of the Khazars, Jewish converts.

But Sands points out in his first pages that "nationalism" and even "nations" in the modern sense don't really predate mass education and mass literacy. Back in medieval France, let's say, some dude in what is now Lyon didn't know he was "French." Sands' scholarly example: in the kingdom of the Maccabees, the rulers spoke Aramaic, the masses various Hebrew dialects, and the merchants in the cities did their business in the Greek koine – no "nation" there.

Sands draws on Benedict Anderson, who demonstrated that "nations" are imaginary constructs ("consensual hallucinations," to adapt Gibson's description of cyberspace). AND on Ernest Gellner, who argues that "nationalism," which presupposes literacy, creates "nations" – rather than the other way around.

These are fertile concepts. Sands' analysis makes a strong case that an American civil religion (Jefferson, Lincoln, MLK, & maybe even proto-Greenie Thoreau) could persist in a browner nation. It also providPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>16646

I'm somewhat in the same position as you, but probably slightly more strangling since I'm writing fanfiction that doesn't retcon a well-done tragic ending that is unpopular in the fandom.

>Publishers are a market where, like any other, advertising and money dominate in distribution and consumption. It doesn't matter if you are good, what matters is that you have a known name and money to put it in the bookstore's windows.

>"writers' social networks", that work the same way as other social networks, where fame and followers define who gets read and gets attention, regardless the quality

You're right in that it's not actually about quality, merit, or creativity as it is about popularity. The game in social media, and probably not at all different from the times before then was about joining and participating in a "community". For example, easily, fanfiction writers in a fandom: if you joined the "main" Discord, Livejournal circle, you get higher views and ratings than those who don't. It's easily observable that someone who's connected can get 500 views per 300 words despite poor editing or relative low amount of content.

The same goes for writing and book clubs in real life, or your college writing class. I don't think the case is all that different for times before social media, e.g if you ever had that "this <book/film/game/album> isn't all that great even though its popular" moment.

As an added note, I have literally read published fanfiction that had a print run that used "-sama" and Japanese honorifics in the text. It really read like complete cringe despite the praise it gets. The characters were also out-of-character, but the author was well known enough in the fandom to have gone that far.

>>16633

lol

>>16649

Interesting thought, Anon.

>>15612

THIS.

And unnecessary suffixes-in-general. "Orientate" to mean orient. "Pretentiousness" to mean pretense. Etc.

"Gift" used as an infinitive or present-tense verb.

I GAVE my nephew a shirt for Christmas, I didn't "gift" it. Fucking hell. I swear.

I hate intentionally misspelled words. I get it, it's intentional, but it's annoying to read.

>>15612

I used to say electronical and thought it was an actual word. Fishes really bothers me. I know it's a proper word and all. If a cow was called a cows would cowses be the right plural? Doesn't a contextually placed apostrophe suffice?

>>16664

Fishes refers to multiple types of fish, not to multiple fish. The parrotfish, the catfish, and the dogfish are fishes, but three goldfish are just fish.

I never see anybody talk about Louis Auchincloss, who I've been on a major binge of recently. Great stuff.

I'll eternally shill Peter Matthiessen, who isn't particularly obscure but who also doesn't often make it into "best of" or "must read" lists

>>15716

>Louis Auchincloss

Holy shit this dude wrote. Where do you even start with him?

>>15719

I think "Confessions of a Jacobite" and "Diary of a Yuppie" are both excellent and quick reads.

Christopher Isherwood (Prater Violet, and others).

I realize he was born British, but later became a US citizen.

same man

>>16587

Post your rewrite and part 2 of your intro.

>>16594

busy the next two weeks so don't hold your breath about it

>>16531

Not bad, but a bit wordy and you kind of made up a word or two (shoned?)

Here's my version:

The city was dark and dusty. A killer dressed in grey crept through its streets, stalking his target. A gunshot cracked in the distance and his focus narrowed on the task ahead. His heart beat louder and louder in his head with each step forward, edging closer to the climactic release of his trigger that pulsed in his right hand. Wretched, primitive street children scrambled across his path with their scrap metal toys clanging in the cold night, their faces black from the city air. The gang of half-naked youths took a few steps closer to the man with an inkling of an idea to beat him over the head and rifle through his pockets, but the six-shooter glinted in the yellow streetlight and the marauders scattered.

Gief feedback pls

>>16605

"A gunshot cracked. . . .his focus narrowed" I'm not sure what focus narrowing looks like to you. Show what you mean instead. It's also strange that he is holding his gun out; says a lot about the character's impulsiveness or narrow focus, or how dangerous and criminal the place is. You should demonstrate or hint more; the character of the person more, or imbue into the narrative a narrow focus and adrenaline as if the mental state of the character is infecting it. There's no consistent "voice", if I'm using that concept correctly.

>>16588

Continued …..

When I opened my eyes again there were sirens in the rear view mirror. The head of my vehicle was bent like a new transgendered woman: all inside out. There is an officer at my window, I pull the peachskin away from my flacid cock but as it slids up my shaft I remember briefly the corpse of Vanessa, and the peach skin flies towards the window from the force of my sudden errectness. A loud splatter latter and the officer's nose wrinkles in disgust.

"fuck it, let him burn"

"Nothing here is worth saving"

I closed my eyes again as the flames wrapped around me, and I wondered if this is what Vanessa felt like in her final moments.

I support this.

Actually there's a huge market for this… I really do support this. You'd make a shit ton of money if you wrote at least 10, 000 words then sold it online epub style for 10 - 99 cents or some shit.

A shit ton of money for a NEET, that is.

>>16591

>>16592

>>16593.

Thanks for the support dude, honestly I expected people to think I was trolling. While this is definitely fun to write, I also believe there is some deeper meaning I can tap into here. But it's gonna be a journey to tap into the right energy to treat it with respect while still being engaging to read you know? Again though, thanks bro for being able to see what I see. I felt alone in that a long while.

>>14053

Medieval Russia's Epics, Chronicles, and Tales is the only book that comes to my mind.

>>14053

There's not really anything like the Bible from that region, to my knowledge. The best you're going to get is things like folktales and epic poems. The Epic of King Gesar was a really big deal in that part of the world, but every country has their own version of the story.

>>14059

wrong mah nigga

>>14053

here we go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veda_Slovena

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Veles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nart_saga

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_Igor%27s_Campaign

if you're interested in indoeuropean religion/culture, i suggest you do some research on kalash-people, heinrich zimmer, rig veda, homer/hesiod (duh) … interesting was the moment after patroclos dies right the greek warriors cut off some hair of theirs to show their mourning, there was a similar thing in a byelorussian film about WW2 with the hair part compare it to the tenethos/hypnos story from greek mythology…. theres also an encyclopedia of indoeuropean culture if you search for it in the internet … encyclopedia iranica is somewhat nice too.. it depends if you re rather into primary or secondary sources m8

ps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysiaca I don't know if its helpful but still

The icelandic sagas seem's to be the largest source.

>>14053

Check out the Kolbrin

Look up Alexander Rabinowitch's trilogy. It's excellent and thorough.

>>16566

Thanks for the suggestion. I mean to post this in the Last Books Read thread but I haven't posted on an image board since 8chan died

Some countries extend copyright for 70 years after a creator's death, but some (prominent examples being Canada, and New Zealand) only extend it for 50 years.

Richmal Crompton died in 1969 and Thomas Henry, the illustrator for the vast majority of the books, died in 1962. So from January next year the Just William books will enter the public domain in the +50 year countries.

Canada has its own version of Project Gutenberg (Gutenberg.ca) and another site called Faded Page (fadedpage.com).

Volunteers on those sites are trying to digitize as much as possible because if the new trade deal goes through with the US, copyrights will probably be moved up to +70 years after death.

Faded Page seem scrupulous about getting the original texts and proofreading them thoroughly. If both the author and illustrator died more than 50 years ago they try to include the original illustrations as well.

Check out their early illustrated editions of some of Enid Blyton's work. Here is the first in the Malory Towers series.

https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.php?pid=20190330

"Entrepreneurs aren’t risk takers, they’re risk eliminators." Jake Endres, Crooked Run brewery.

420 thread?

Once in a while a topic pops up here that takes me by surprise. I'm not adverse to the subject, nor do I feel it undeserving of the board's attention. I aim not to dissuade. I am puzzled though, given the discussion on the relative merits of alternative pharmacopoeia "trade" publications being thoroughly covered elsewhere.

For myself, the subject of drugs depicted in literature tends to evoke the work of three authors. The first is an utterly surprising scene of a final voyage drug trip undertaken in a forgotten novel by Gore Vidal. Vidal mixes in his usual pet peeves on sexuality and society. More important, he uses this scene to swim through symbolism so as to bury earlier themes and characters he will no longer explore in his novels. Amusing to see how an author learns how to let go. Finally, taken at face value–if you were lucky to have survived such an ordeal–this scene is as horrifying as it is peaceful. Vidal got the details of ODing in this way down pat. Something I never expected to see from Vidal.

Frederick Prokosch touches on the means of running heroin across the middle east in one of his novels. It's not central to his novel, though. What is interesting is his historical depiction of the existence of an underground drug trade in the 1920s. When people get all nostalgic for the 1960s, or the 1980s, their memories are, most often, just more of the same of an older generation.

Hunter S. Thompson. No more should need be said, although I find people most often skip by his message in favor of the bedazzling mayhem. Thompson was far more literary than he is given credit for.

Anyway, to the point of OPs request, personal endorsements of meaningfully useful non-fiction would be the most welcome. And, the most interesting. I hold some observations of my own, but I prefer to compartmentalize and separate my opinions elsewhere, as per the leading quote. For the rest of the board, feel free to share whatever, and thank you!

Imperium by Robert Harris was really good.

>>16297

I said nonfiction but whatever ok

>>16287

The Mediterranean in the Ancient World by Fernand Braudel

Halfchan keeps promoting the IRC model of book sharing. I'm not so sure this is in proper keeping with modern image-board culture. Based on my limited expeditions into IRCland, if you can't find something elsewhere it won't be found on #bookz either. Plus, there's a lotta extra effort, expense, and learning curve you have to put in to guarantee anonymity and privacy over IRC. At least it's something to be aware of for the more curious to try.

The Libgen blob became the single greatest library on Earth. This should probably be your first stop for searching.

/pdfs/ here on 8chan is an option, albeit they're best fit for the cultural warrior types. Worth a quick look though.

The onion lands (or the even more exotic network frameworks being developed) host a growing field of repositories, but I personally hate seeing any Tor exclusive resources discussed on a clearnet service. The September that never ended has ended. No more hand-holding please! Leave the normalfags to stew in their facebook/twitter/google enclaves so we might enjoy what remains free and worthwhile for a while longer.

libgen

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>tfw not in bib

You can always just get a library card OP. I've got one just to test out mozilla's location spoofing feature.

>>16494

You can use tor or any proxy/vpn to circumvent those.

>>16494

install foxyproxy and check proxies online

I'm halfway through it after 20 mins and I can confirm. Alexei bits are so fucking annoying.

>>15555

>people falling for the bait this easily

>>16426

i disagree, the annoying parts are where dostoevsky decides to tell you about the story of an elder monk or a bunch of schoolboys

I read crime and punishment but in the 5 years since I have gotten bored with karamazov

>>16493

this sounds like my kind of book

thanks for the short description, anon