/catastrophism/ -The Origin of Consciousness in the Break Down of the Bicameral Mind

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File: d17deb119760638⋯.jpg (1.77 MB,4608x2128,288:133,julian_jaynes.jpg)

The Origin of Consciousness in the Break Down of the Bicameral Mind Anonymous 04/28/25 (Mon) 09:20:50 aa8869 No.7

This is an absolutely classic work by Julian Jaynes, and while it isn't a directly Catastrophist work it is an essential building block for Catastrophist thinking.

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Anonymous 04/28/25 (Mon) 09:30:50 aa8869 No.8

File: 4bf6feb5c801d98⋯.pdf (2.98 MB,Julian_Jaynes_The_origin_o….pdf)

It explains why ancient people had the gods walk beside them in day-to-day life. Men in ancient literature think in a fundamentally different way from how we do today.

Julian Jaynes goes over examples from ancient literature and shows how their behavior was different. They might have some ideas about what to do but to make something happen it took the intervention of a god. They told them what to do. And for such people morality as we know it had little meaning. These actions were in the hands of the gods and men had little responsibilty for the results.

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Anonymous 04/28/25 (Mon) 09:43:01 aa8869 No.9

They were not "conscious" as we are. Julian Jaynes calls it Subjective Consciousness. They were not able to juggle hypothetical scenarios as lines of reasoning. Things just happened. Because either a god told them or someone else's god did to them.

He points out that being conscious is learned behavior, taught with great effort by our parents in our childhoood.

"Now then little Jimmy, if you hit your friend Nigel over the head with that stick, how do you think he will feel about it? What will he do?"

"I don't know Daddy"

"He will be angry. That was why he punched you on the nose"

This is drummed into children again and again, and during the period between seven and eleven well brought up children get to grips with this interplay of multiple outcomes, past narratives and a meaningful ethical framework based on this.

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Anonymous 06/06/25 (Fri) 09:07:25 fd37ad No.29

The biggest most important part of the book is a study of the Iliad and the behavior of the characters. The gods walked beside them. When Achilles was going to beat up Agamemnon for stealing his girlfriend Athena grabs him by his yellow hair and talks sense into him.

"Anachronistic Affliction" has a good episode about the Iliad as history, but he misses this angle. I don't think he has read this book.

https://youtu.be/q6afWHYqnhk

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Anonymous 08/13/25 (Wed) 20:10:24 fe09ec No.57

entire theory is incorrect while of course interesting

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Anonymous 08/14/25 (Thu) 07:08:25 aa8869 No.58

>>57

It is a really fascinating book. You will never look at people the same way afterwards.

Hardly a day goes by whem I don't think about some aspect of this book or see someone doing something stupid that fits with the model he describes.

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Anonymous 08/16/25 (Sat) 23:35:54 aa8869 No.59

File: 397653a47a4fa0a⋯.jpg (242.45 KB,Wheel_sermon_hl.jpg)

>>59

That is a valid point. I tend to entertain two options, that is is as J Jaynes said and that is the are executive right-brain steering. But without changing any of the known facts it could be the literal Voice of God and the purpose of the brain is to receive and interpret.

Backing up that latter position is what Jerry Marzinsky said about demons and the power of prayer regarding his work with schizophrenics but also on the grand scale of Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.

The terms of The Sermon on the Mount don't sound like a real mountain becuase it is too windy on mointain tops to give speeches and most people are not fit enough to climb to a mountain top anyway. One gives a speech somewhere sheltered the crowd can get to, like the market place.

The Sermon on the Mount sounds celestial, with a plasma mount rising up from presumably the North Pole and the Voice of Jesus clearly heard by all - I take it directly in minds of the audiance, and clear as a bell.

I was struck by the Indians maybe hearing the same sermon when I read this passage in my wheel book (see >>39). People seem to hear all the same stuff (good or bad), whether demons in Jerry Marzinsky's patients, or the audiance to the Sermon on the Mount or the possibly identical speech heard described in picrel. Makes it a bit unlikely they all had their right-brain tell them the same thing by its silent analysis.

(Not sure if you know Jerry Marzinsky but here is one of his videos:

https://youtu.be/DR-_NixxW_A )

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Anonymous 08/20/25 (Wed) 20:53:42 dc6b77 No.60

File: 397653a47a4fa0a⋯.jpg (242.45 KB,1024x1773,1024:1773,Wheel_sermon_hl.jpg)

>>59

>404

I will try uploading the picture again. Short version, if eye witnesses from all around the world agree on something it might be real not km their heads.

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